Listen in as Sam Jayanti and Jamie Kosmar dive into the challenges of remote work leadership, exploring the evolving role of leaders as part-coach and part-friend. They unravel the complexities of sustaining work culture in dispersed teams, emphasizing the importance of genuine human connection over technology. Assessments and coaching emerge as powerful tools, guiding leaders through individualized learning journeys in the remote era. Tune in for key insights and strategies to master leadership in the new work landscape.
Episode Transcript:
Sam Jayanti [00:00:03] Welcome to ideamix- Performance and Wellness, where world leading coaches and scientists explain how their research can help you achieve your personal and professional goals faster. Hi, it’s Sam Jayanti, co-founder and CEO of ideamix coaching. Coaching has played an important role in my life. It’s helped me through my journey to become a powerful leader, mother and wife. Ideamix coaches, help you increase your self-awareness, improve your problem solving skills, and evolve your habits to achieve your goals– all things I’m grateful to have learned and done through my own coaching journey. Our easy one minute assessment matches you with an ideal mix coach that best fits your needs and values. Each ideamix coach is vetted and experienced and helps clients map and achieve their wellness professional and business goals. If you or someone you know could benefit from coaching, visit our website at www.theideamix.com. We also know that not everyone can invest in coaching right now and that’s why we provide free coaching in our coach shorts episodes. If you think someone you know would benefit from it, please share our podcast with them. Thanks for listening. And see you next time.
Jamie Kosmar [00:01:12] Welcome to the next episode of Coaching for Performance and Wellness. We’re your hosts, Jamie Kosmar.
Sam Jayanti [00:01:20] And Sam Jayanti.
Jamie Kosmar [00:01:21] And today I’m very excited to be talking about the timely topic of organizational culture in the age of distributed teams. And you know, back in the day when offshoring started, we defined distributed teams in a way that meant you had teams that were not working in the same places because they were working in global locations and they weren’t working together. And today, you know, post-pandemic, we have more and more people working remotely. And so many teams are working and not in the same place. And that doesn’t mean that they are globally distributed, but it means that they are not working in the same office on a day to day basis. So we’re now in an age where flexibility is the norm for employees and we’re in a situation where employees expect that to be a benefit that a company is providing, while companies still want employees to go back to the old model, and it’s creating this this tension between employees and companies, in fact.
Sam Jayanti [00:02:41] It’s a real tension, right, right now. I mean, even if we think about this past 12 months in relation to the past three years, the number of people who are back in the office, not mostly not five days a week, but four days a week now. Is significant, right? And I think I think the tension has been between flexibility and productivity, because I think in some instances the productivity loss was meaningful. But I think there seems to be a broad realization that the hybrid is necessary.
Jamie Kosmar [00:03:23] I also think, you know, it’s about flexibility, and if we want to get a little granular on it, you know, employees are like, why should I commute all this, spend my time commuting? Why should I invest in a new wardrobe? Why should I pay for a lunch? Why should I have all these outlays of having to go into the office?
Sam Jayanti [00:03:43] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:03:43] And so why is it that I don’t get compensated for that when I have proven to you over the course of this remote period, fully remote period for many people that I can do my job and do it well without having to be in the office to do that.
Sam Jayanti [00:04:00] No, I think it’s a really legitimate… It’s a legitimate question. And I think that the balance and the tension is when you are fully remote, how do you form closer relationships with the people that you already know and new relationships with people that you might be encountering for the first time? Companies are sort of constantly changing things, I sort of think of them as I did when we were all children in school, we sort of used to look at the amoeba moving under the microscope. And that’s sort of how I think of companies– they are these constantly changing, evolving, reshaping things. And that’s about the people in them reconstituting evolving roles, changing responsibilities. And I think a fully remote environment makes it very challenging to stay in touch with all of that change, right?
Jamie Kosmar [00:04:59] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. How do you bring everybody along when you are transforming an organization where things are moving, constantly moving? But, you know, I feel like we know and can be pretty confident that the hybrid work environment is here to stay. And while the office centric model will still be in existence in some form, there is going to have to be a balance between remote and office productivity and how people are engaging. So in that point, you know, there’s been a lot of challenges that arise from the fact that we have very abruptly gone from this office centric model to this distributed model for many people.
Sam Jayanti [00:05:48] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:05:49] Because let’s face it too, even if people are coming into the office for 3 or 4 days a week, they’re not necessarily coming in all at the same time.
Sam Jayanti [00:05:59] Yes.
Jamie Kosmar [00:06:00] And so, you know, I remember talking to a friend of mine who was saying, you know, there’s no point in you going to the office because even when we do meetings, I’m still on Zoom because not everybody is there.
Sam Jayanti [00:06:09] Right.
Jamie Kosmar [00:06:10] So what’s the point of being there?
Sam Jayanti [00:06:11] Right. Right.
Jamie Kosmar [00:06:13] So it’s grappling with some of those sort of that perspective. But there are real, real challenges. And I think the first one that’s important to address is how do you transmit work culture in an environment where you’re not all in the same place on a day to day basis?
Sam Jayanti [00:06:34] I mean, it’s the perfect question, right? And I think. The short version of the answer is that the leader of each team, each level, throughout an organization now, however small or large, senior or junior that team may be, has acquired even more importance in a sense, because that leader is tasked with being the mechanism or the or the person who really fosters and builds culture for that team and then in turn, the rest of the organization.
Jamie Kosmar [00:07:14] So you basically have culture ambassadors now in addition to managing your team in a traditional way and basically managing the balance sheet and making sure you’re hitting your goals and setting your goals. There are all of these additional responsibilities that a leader will have to assume in a hybrid or remote, predominantly remote environment.
Sam Jayanti [00:07:38] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:07:39] And I think it’s important.
Sam Jayanti [00:07:41] So can I just interject one thing there? I think that the role of leadership has changed in one really fundamental way, which is that leaders today, you know, they’ve always had their laundry list of ensure of profitability and performance of productivity and all those other things. But what’s been added to that list now is ensure that each individual on your team is okay, is fully invested, is engaged, and is is doing all the things they need to be doing. And that really takes the skills that a leader needs from purely professional perhaps to much more having to be. A sort of part coach, part therapist, part friend. All the while you’re being the boss or the leader. And that’s challenging.
Jamie Kosmar [00:08:39] Yes. I’m really leaning into skills and ideas that are well beyond when, you know, you tend to think about the traditional idea of a leader well beyond those, the skill set that they used to have to have. And now the remote environment is really demanding. Right? That they have this this extra set of skills in order to, again, transmit their culture and workplace norms. And what else does that mean? That means, you know, understanding that not everybody on a team is going to feel the impact of being remote equally.
Sam Jayanti [00:09:22] Exactly.
Jamie Kosmar [00:09:23] You know, that’s not going to be evenly distributed. You know, the example that you were talking about where somebody in their career who is maybe in the level they are, you know, in the phase of life where they’re having kids, their requirements and needs are very different from a young professional who is, you know, recently out of university and entering into their their first job. So what they get out of the culture and they’re learning what they’re learning should be and what they need are all going to be very, very different.
Sam Jayanti [00:09:59] Yeah. And each leader as a result has to really, in a sense, deliver an individualized experience for each of these people. Right. I mean, we talk about customer experience. Every company sort of talks about that. But it’s sort of what’s the internal employee experience. And I think the leader is really tasked with meeting everyone where they are in a sense. You know, how is it that this person likes to optimally communicate? What’s the frequency? You know, does this person do well for long periods of time when they don’t come into the office? Do they need to come into the office because the long periods of time don’t work? Does this person have a strong relationship with 1 or 2 members of the team, but not with other members of the team? There’s so many parameters that you’re having to consider and solve for, that leaders really need to evolve their skills to be able to do.
Jamie Kosmar [00:10:54] Yes, and, you know, the reality is, is that if they don’t, we see loss of productivity, we see lost innovation, and we see basically a loss of engagement amongst employees and further sort of what we call stickiness. Right? Loyalty.
Sam Jayanti [00:11:15] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:11:16] You know, employees are going to go and find somewhere else where they can get totally whatever it is that they that they need from an employer.
Sam Jayanti [00:11:25] So I think it’s really interesting to think about why we are in this place, right, where most organizations are struggling with a lowering or a lack of engagement. A loss of cohesion in their culture and haven’t quite figured out how they’re going to fix it. What are your thoughts on how we got here?
Jamie Kosmar [00:11:53] I think that at the heart of it, when you have an office centric model, the transmission of cultures and norms, mentorship, building connection, all happens in a much more organic way.
Sam Jayanti [00:12:11] Right.
Jamie Kosmar [00:12:12] And when you take the place out of that culture, you have to be much more intentional about making sure that those bridges are built to then transmit…
Sam Jayanti [00:12:25] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:12:26] …That connection, those culture, those norms. And that’s really, I think, what the modern leader is going to be tasked with is how do I in this non-office centric model, in this hybrid world, how do I build these bridges to keep people, to keep talent, to make sure people feel a sense of belonging, to make sure that the young professionals coming into my organization are being mentored and have growth. And it’s not just in their technical skills, because the workplace is is really important for helping young professionals develop their emotional intelligence as well, which is needed for things like collaboration. And, you know, we think about influence. All those skills are necessary for building a culture and getting things done and maximizing productivity and performance.
Sam Jayanti [00:13:25] Yeah. And I think everyone’s needs… The reason this is so complex, it sounds simple in a sense, right? But it’s so complex because in any given team you have people spread across different generations who’ve observed their parents having different work experiences and have a set of preconceptions about how they want to work and what’s good for them at work, right, or in their work life. I think as a leader, you have to see, hear, and acknowledge all of that, right in this kind of individualized way. And at the same time, think about what does this person need, right? Because we often ourselves miss things that we need. And that’s what mentorship is about and that’s what leadership is about, right?
Jamie Kosmar [00:14:26] Yeah, absolutely. Beyond leadership, I think it’s important to talk about some of the things that companies have been doing out there to sort of manage this situation of this new world order, should I say. You know, one of them is technology and the role of technology.
Sam Jayanti [00:14:45] Yeah.
Jamie Kosmar [00:14:47] You know, we have so many tools now through which we can connect and communicate, but those have limitations. You know, it’s not if you haven’t had the chance to be in real life with somebody, what’s the level of connection that you can actually build using just remote technologies? Is that as effective at creating that connection? Is when you’re launching a project and you’re trying to generate ideas of how this project’s going to move forward, how many ideas get created on a Zoom meeting versus when you are actually in the room together? Talking about something. And I mean, you know, part of this, I think, is about focus as well. Right? We’re highly distracted these days, you know…
Sam Jayanti [00:15:39] Partly because of the technology and the simple number of tools that we’re tasked with using. Right?
Jamie Kosmar [00:15:43] Exactly. I mean, I think everybody can relate to the fact that you’ve been on a Zoom meeting and you get like an alert that you’ve gotten something else and then your attention gets taken away. And that is because of technology that we’re getting that sort of those instantaneous alerts. But when you’re in the room, when you’re in person with people, you it’s just easier to for as a human being, I think, to be present.
Sam Jayanti [00:16:09] 100%. And I think, you know, technology in the end is a tool. It’s a utility. It’s not a substitute for human interaction. And and so it has to be viewed as a supplement and as a as an enhancement and as a tool, but but never as a substitute for. I want to talk about one thing which you brought up earlier. Belonging. Right. I think so many times and you know, in the context of our coaching business as well as on this podcast, we talk about belonging and increasingly I find that and I don’t know if this is your experience, too, that companies think of belonging in the context of diversity, equity and inclusion. And yes, obviously belonging is a very key aspect of somebody from a diverse background being able to integrate and feeling a sense of belonging in an organization or a team. But that sense of belonging is important for everybody, irrespective of who they are. Right? And a leader of a team is tasked with creating that sense of belonging for each person. So in a way, it’s odd that we talk about it most frequently these days in a DE&I context when it really should be the entire context or the much broader context of organizations’ efficiency, productivity and culture.
Jamie Kosmar [00:17:53] Basically, wearing a wider lens when you think about how do I how do I maximize my team performance? And a critical element of that is creating safety and belonging for every team member. And then now the question becomes is how do I do that if my team is not always in an office working in the same place day to day, how does that work?
Sam Jayanti [00:18:16] Yeah, so we work so much, right, with leaders– young, old, new, emerging, established– and I think it would be really helpful to give our listeners a perspective on why coaching and possibly assessments, too, are helpful in this issue that we’re talking about is helping leaders navigate remote or distributed teams.
Jamie Kosmar [00:18:53] Yeah, I mean, that’s a… it’s a good question, and I think a good place to start is with assessments and how those tools work as a starting point for coaching. So assessments are really productive assessments complemented. So when we say assessments, it’s not just sitting down and taking a test. It’s you sit down, you take this personality test that then creates a sort of what is your personality? What does it look like? Who are you? You know, what motivates you? How do you behave in stressful situations? And so it looks at all these things and creates an output that helps you understand who you are, you know, because the amazing thing is, is that we all have this inner monologue that happens all the time. And.
Sam Jayanti [00:19:47] I love that term inner monologue, but it’s so true.
Jamie Kosmar [00:19:50] And most of us are not aware of it. Right. We don’t we don’t realize that we’re reacting. We don’t realize what’s what the narrative is saying in our head. And the beauty of an assessment for the individual that is taking it is it tells you about that inner monologue. Right? It gives you a deeper understanding of what your inner monologue sounds like in certain situations and then how you act on that inner monologue.
Sam Jayanti [00:20:19] And where it’s productive and where it’s not.
Jamie Kosmar [00:20:21] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Sam Jayanti [00:20:23] So so I think the way to think about assessments, is there a point in time picture to help each of us understand where we’re at. It doesn’t mean that they’re fixed or set in stone they’re ever changing, but it gives you a point of time point and time data point effectively.
Jamie Kosmar [00:20:43] Yeah. I mean, we should definitely talk about the fact that these personality assessments are really gauging a moment and it is not fixed.
Sam Jayanti [00:20:53] Right.
Jamie Kosmar [00:20:54] Right? It doesn’t say this is who you are. This is a this is this may be naturally how you show up in this situation. But this is where the coaching comes in because it can say this is how you naturally show up, but given your role, maybe you should be showing up more this way. You should learn to show up more in these situations this way. So with the help of coaching, so once you get the assessment, a coach can help you develop those goals and work towards them.
Sam Jayanti [00:21:24] Yeah, I really think in the end, coaching is a really effective, individualized learning and development tool. The assessments serve as a jumping off point for that learning and development process. And so when you think about leaders and apply it to leaders at any level, every leader comes in with a set of skills that they’ve learned and honed. And those skills that have been learned and honed in the process of getting to that leadership position are in fact quite different from the skills that they need to manage that team effectively going forward. And that’s where the skills evolution piece and the learning and development that comes from coaching is really key.
Jamie Kosmar [00:22:11] Yeah, and I mean, you know, as a leader, for example, you can understand that in these certain situations you’re reacting this way. And it could be possibly, you know, there’s there’s not just one solution. One is, you know, you do you get coaching to help you sort of evolve those skills so that you can show up and in ways that your team needs to maximize their performance. You know, the other way is, so how can I think about building out my team so that maybe these skills that I’m not as strong in, I have somebody who’s beside me, who is strong and like, how do I do that? I mean, so there’s I guess there’s, you know… There’s paths to use those in ways that are quite constructive for building out their leadership teams.
Sam Jayanti [00:22:57] 100%, 100%. And I think assessments and coaching, as we see in our business, have acquired greater importance as a result of distributed teams, right? Because people need more scaffolding and support and at the same time, leaders need data and a learning and development methodology that they can use for themselves, as well as with their team members to kind of unite people around a common vision and then be able to execute on those plans.
Jamie Kosmar [00:23:36] Yeah, I mean, I also think just in general, the assessment itself can understand your team in a more granular fashion so you can get down to who they are and why maybe they react a certain way in certain situations, because you as the leader don’t always aren’t always going to know that or pick up on that as well. And so having that insight into your team, you know, can help you figure out how you communicate messages, for example, or how you pair people up to work on projects. So, I mean, I fundamentally believe that doing an assessment, having a baseline of data driving self self-awareness among your team as well as for you as their leader is very helpful and even more helpful in this age when we are not necessarily in the office every day working side by side and connecting in the ways that we used to.
Sam Jayanti [00:24:28] Absolutely. Thank you all for joining us today. See you next time.
Narrator [00:24:36] Thanks for listening. Please subscribe wherever you listen and leave us a review. Find your ideal coach at www.theideamix.com. Special thanks to our producer Martin Milewski and singer-songwriter Doug Allen.